Thread: Lesson planning for HS vs. Elem

With my art classes, I have to give more time for the high school students than the elementary students.

high school students will spend much more time getting things accurate and perfecting every little detail. Independant art projects will take them a month.

The elementary students have limited skills and attention span. They will finish the same project in less than a week. They just don't spend the same amount of thought, nor are their standards as high. They just want to get it done, and the lack the attention to detail to really get into the project.

On the other hand, I have to prepare more specific instructions, visual aids, and guided lessons for the younger classes. If it's not written on the board somewhere the students won't do it.

The high school classes can look at a finished example and start working with some minimal instruction. Once they're working independantly then I can go around and give them individual help.

I've taught both.

The lessons for secondary classes are more intense. At first, I had to plan the lesson step by step, choose problems for review, choose problems for the new lesson, choose problems for practice, homework etc. I had to work all those problems. Sometimes the text and ancillary materials weren't deep enough and I had to start digging.

That was just for one course. I've never taught just one course

At the elementary level - I also did all that, but the material was elementary - no pun intented! So I could do more scanning. I could look more at the units after I got the hang of things - the first of the year was always the hardest. While I taught Math and Communcation Skills daily, I didn't teach the other subjects daily. I might alternate Science and SS in a week for example (or teach SS all week and Sci the next.) I was also able to look for more ways to integrate the subjects -- Books that brought SS & Sci together are great - at the very least ditch the text and use real books for one or the other and then you of course already have addressed your English and writing objectives as you write and analyze text.

Thanks for both the replies. The integration of subjects is a good point and something I hadn't considered at all. I imagine once I actually get into the program I'll get a better feel for what planning is all about to begin with. Right now I just have this idea in my mind and it could be a little off.

One thing that is nice with elementary is the variability; maybe less of a chance that you'd find it tedious with all the marking, planning and so on if the subjects were changing.

I think it can really vary from year to year. I've taught mostly secondary, but one year of first grade. First grade did take some planning, but then there was the daily fillers-- sharing, snack time, singing, recess, welcome circle, that took big chunks of the day. Sometimes in secondary ed. you teach 8th grade English for 6 periods straight (easy but boring). Sometimes you teach 7th grade remedial English, 8th grade social studies, 8th grade honors social studies, etc. in one day. Sometimes you teach the same class for several years (I'm going into my 3rd year with same curriculum-- a miracle!!) but sometimes from year to year they change your classes or the books change. So, in other words, I don't have an easy answer!

Also, some schools require you to turn in detailed lesson plans every few weeks with objectives and standards. Some schools don't ask to see your lesson plans ever.

Originally Posted by ShannonC

when it comes to lesson planning, do you think elementary would require more time for lesson planning from a teacher since they have to prepare lessons for all subjects whereas HS is only for one or two

There's an old adage that goes, "Elementary teachers generalize in everything but specialize in nothing." As a former self-contained elementary teacher, I have found this to largely be true.

Elementary teachers need to know a little about everything: science, math, reading, writing, history, art, music, etc.

As a Chef Instructor, my focus is now limited to the instruction of the culinary arts. It's my job to help secondary students develop the skills they will need to work in the professional food service industry.

As an elementary teacher, I once taught 4th graders how to bake as part of a hands-on math measurement project. The focus of instruction was on the appropriate use of measurement and developing the ability to read and following sequential directions.

Baking lessons with high school students are far more complex. Since the secondary students will be working in commercial kitchens, they must abide by county and state health codes. They must be familiar with physical, chemical, and biological cross contaminants, time and temperature controls, safe food handling, use of FIFO (first in first out) rotation techniques, hot holding procedures, and cooling for storage procedures. They must wear disposable gloves and appropriate culinary attire that has less to do with "looking like a chef" and more to do with the practice of appropriate hygiene.

They must have the ability to assemble, disassemble, and clean the component parts of a Hobart or Kitchen Aid mixer. They must be able to convert cups, pints, and quarts into ounces. They must be able to calculate portion yields and have the ability to proportionally increase recipes to increase yields. They must also identify production food cost and labor cost percentages associated with the creation of a given food product.

The culinary lessons in a high school curriculum are linked with mini-lessons that include math, nutrition, career awareness, time management, and other relevant topics.

In general, I agree with the others. Writing lesson plans and curriculum for secondary students is much more time consuming than writing lessons for their younger counterparts.

I could definitely see what you mean there. (and seriously your position sounds great! I've always had a love of cooking/baking, maybe not as skilled as you seem to be, but teaching HS home ec would be so great I think).

One thing I'm noticing when reading the comments, I do get more 'turned on' by reading the types of activities you are planning with high school as opposed to say sharing, snack time, singing and such so maybe that is a sign I am better suited to high school.

I think education wise, I talked to an advisor today and I can do an elementary program but take about 8 additional courses and then also get my certificate for HS English so then I'll have the best of both worlds and will be certified to teach both. It takes me a little longer but the tuition costs are still going to be cheaper doing it that way then if I went to the private school and just did my elementary degree (where I got accepted for this year).

Originally Posted by ShannonC

One thing I'm noticing when reading the comments, I do get more 'turned on' by reading the types of activities you are planning with high school as opposed to say sharing, snack time, singing and such so maybe that is a sign I am better suited to high school.

Secondary education can be intimidating to young novice teachers partially because novice teachers have limited teaching experience but also because you're really not much older than the students you'll be teaching.

I thought about becoming a high school teacher when I was an undergraduate sophomore but eventually became an elementary teacher. As an elementary teacher, I was much older than my students. I think the semblance of being older and more mature gave me an advantage as a novice elementary teacher that I wouldn't have had as a young secondary teacher.

Of course, this was twenty-five years ago ... so things have changed. I have changed. I'm older. I have more life experiences. I'm easily twice and nearly three times the age of the high school students.

As a veteran teacher, I'm no longer self conscious about the way I interact with students. Teaching now seems to come naturally. I don't fumble with lesson plans and worry about awkward transitions. For that matter, I don't worry about lesson plans at all. The lessons seem to flow from my fingertips nearly as fast as I can type.

Best of all, I can now combine my passion for food with my experience as a restaurant manager, breakfast chef, innkeeper, and teacher.

I started teaching when I was 24, 5 foot 2, long hair, and was told I looked younger. In fact, one time I was observing in a middle school class and a very friendly 8th grader sat down next to me and said, "Hi, I'm Mary, are you a new student?"

However, I quickly found that even being 24 years old seemed really old to high school students. Anyone over 21 was old. 24 was ancient. I let that self-consciousness go because they in no way saw me as a peer. I was an old lady!