Thread: More discipline questions

If this were an elementary class, I would recommend revoking recess. They would have to sit at their desks while remaining absolutely silent. They would have to listen to a talk about appropriate conduct and respect. Any student who so much as rolled his or her eyeballs or made an audible comment or sniffed would subject the class to yet another time out.

Since you work with older students, I would not accept oral insults. Erasing the written comments without saying anything was a good idea since you didn't know who wrote the comment ... but the moment students began articulating their thoughts, you should have taken action.

I'm a great believer in assertive management and feel that there should be consequences for all of the choices that we make in life. Students who are behaving in an inappropriate manner should be warned. If the behavior persists, there should be a consequence i.e. detention, teacher-parent conference, time out for a private discussion in the hallway, failing grade for the day etc. If the behavior persists beyond this point, I'd write the student up and send this student to the office.

You need to be firm, fair, and consistent with students. You can't let them "get to you" because if they see that you're flustered, the behavior will get worse.

I once earned supplemental pay as a school bus driver. As a certified teacher, the transporation depot gave me the worst route. I was assigned the job of driving middle school students home after school.

On the first day of the job, the students refused to be seated. They threw items out the window. They ate on the bus. They stuck their heads and arms out the bus windows while we were on the interstate.

I pulled the bus over and read them the riot act. I reminded them that by their age, they should be familar with bus rules. Since they had clearly forgotten, I spent several minutes going over the rules while the students hooted, cursed, threw things at me, and laughed.

I warned the students that if this behavior persisted, I would turn the bus around and take them back to the transport dept. The students would then have to call home for a ride. I ended my lecture by reminding them that riding the bus was a privilege and that students who did not behave appropriately would not be allowed to ride.

"F**K YOU!" shouted some of the students.

I merged back onto the interstate, took the first exit, turned the bus around and true to my word, returned to the bus depot. There were nearly 60 students on the bus. I think it took 1 1/2 hours for them all to call home since the dispatcher only had one phone for them to use.

The dispatcher winked at me and told me to log out and go on home. She said she'd stay with the kids until all of them had been picked up.

The students continued their misbehavior on the 2nd day. I had to again pull the bus over and repeat my lecture. After being told what I could do with myself, I again returned the bus to the depot with the students still on board.

By the third day, things were better, but a group of students persisted in misbehaving and much to the annoyed shouts of disgust (directed at the other students), I again returned the bus to the depot.

On the 4th day, the students were profoundly quiet and respectful. I was shocked because by this point, I was on the verge of quitting.

I had no more problems ... and the transport depot rewarded me by switching me out with another middle school bus driver who was having problems with HER students.

(grumble)

So ... stand your ground. Be firm. Be fair. Be consistent. Take no grief from anyone. Don't let the students see that you're upset. Don't take their behavior personally and remember that everyday starts afresh.

If you're calm and persistent, you will eventually gain control of this class.

The students may not like you - but that's too bad for them. You're not there to be liked. You're there to teach.

With this being said, you should also know that despite your best efforts, some students are simply not ready to learn. You can't force students to learn but at the same time, these students cannot be allowed to disrupt the classroom climate by intefering with those classmates who want to participate.

If some students choose to do nothing and learn nothing and be nothing - there will be consequences for that.

I've always thought of this as educational triage.

Sometimes, despite your best efforts - you can't reach everyone. So what do you do? You focus your time and effort on those you CAN reach. As for the others - if they choose to sit and fail, they're welcome to do so as long as they're not disruptive.

I would back this policy up by thorough documentation.

Keep a daily log of what happens in your room so that if parents or the school administration want to know why Jason got a failing grade - you'll be able to reel off a list of dates and times during which he sat and did absolutely nothing.

My response would have been- 1. hunt down the offenders who wrote "this class sucks" and immediately pitch into them about it. With 9th graders, you can't let much slide. As far as that happening in the public schools, it can. I've been cursed at, disrespected, and made fun of- sometimes to my face. (and if I don't like it, I send them to the office and let the admins send them home for a day or two.) When teaching 9th graders, remember that:
1. Consequences must be immediate- same as housebreaking a puppy and for much the same reason- if you wait too long it will be ineffective
2. Proper behavior must be spelled out- simple declarative sentences, few syllables, no nuances, no implying, and it probably doesn't hurt to do it f-o-n-e-t-i-k-l-e-e and in ALL CAPS.
3. No guilt- if they break a rule, they get what's coming to them, bottom line. You didn't do anything to make them what they are, and if they can't help it, that's their problem.

First I would have stopped everthing and gotten the attention of the whole class.

We have school-wide "guidelines for success" and one of them is "Respect Yourself and Others" . . . so they would have gotten my "respectful/disrespectful" lecture first.

Now, had one or more students chosen to continue with the disrespecful behavior, he/she would have no longer been in my class that period. I would have either sent the student to another classroom or to a principal. I have, on rare occasions, had the principal come to the room.

I also teach and reteach procedures. My 15 boys I take to lunch are having a hard time believing me that there is only one way to behave to lunch, from lunch, and in the cafeteria . . . and that's my way. Now, they're not believing that, so they have had a HARD time getting to the cafeteria. They're to line up in a straight, silent line. If even one of them makes a peep or acts goofy in the line, we go back to the room and start again. This is where peer pressure starts to make the stragglers shape up. Now, today they had a major meltdown in the cafeteria AND on the way back to the room . . . so I'm looking into DELIVERED lunched for them tomorrow.

:evil:

When we have students behave like immature brats, we take them to K-5 for a few days. They stand in line with the kindergartners, eat with them, etc...Usually after a day, they are ready to go back and do right.

The instant it was verbalized you should have started taking names. I don't care how old they are take their lunch. They eat with you if there is no lunch detention. And they do this for several days. If there is more than a few the whole class gets nailed for the behavior. The behavior would probably not happen if they did not egg them on with laughter.

Stop all group work, for those students who work well in a group, you can let them continue to work in a group.

The others are in lines doing absolutely silent work. Dust off the textbooks and they just start doing exercises, on their own, in complete silence. Anyone pipes up with something besides a legitamate question gets nailed and they lose their lunch time to you. Things wil get worse before they get better. But don't give up and don't let anyone off the hook for anything.

Tell the admin what you are doing in case little janie's mommy calls talking about what a horrible person you are. DOn't go looking for their support, just tell them you are doing it. it is your classroom, you are the one who has to deal with the brats on a daily basis.

Another option. If there is a phone in the room that can make outside calls, or if you have a cell phone, the instant a child does something like what you say, call their parents and inform them their child will be staying after school. If they are on a sports team, call their coach and tell the coach they will not be at practice, they will be seving afterschool detention with you. Don't ask, tell. I once had a coach in my room yelling at me because I was holding his quarterback out of practice, the day before a game, which would make him inelligible for the next day's game.

:twisted: :twisted:

You can do it, a class can be brought under control. It may go against how you do things but, you do what you gotta do to make sure those who want to learn have the chance.

Originally Posted by Mark

The behavior would probably not happen if they did not egg them on with laughter.

My all boys group is AWFUL about reacting to each other. If one is making a noise, there are several who yell "shut up" which starts a big mess.

I've told them that they are responsible for their own behaviors, and they are NOT to interact with anyone who is misbehaving. If they do, then they get in trouble. Typically the person who started the whole mess either quits because the audience is gone or ends up in the office for not following my instructions.

Well, I took your advice. Today, I started off class by going over the rules again. I used to give two warnings before giving a punishment, but today I told them that I will no longer use the warning system (mostly because they thought it was funny when I said, "You have a warning." I admit that it didn't work very well). I had to ask one student to stay after school for 5 minutes because he made a disrespectful face at me, and another got detention for talking at an inappropriate time (the consequence was to stay after school for 5 minutes) and then throwing a piece of paper at another student (which led to detention.

Without the warning system, I feel like I'm going to be giving a lot of punishments for small misbehaviors. Do you think this is reasonable, or will I just wear myself out with this?

Also, today I took away that group's team project and explained why. Instead, they worked on state test strategies and took a sample test. Unfortunately, three students finished, while several will need tomorrow's class to finish. I hate looking for busy work, but I guess I'll have to for those who finished. I didn't want to make it homework because I know that no one will do it. Any suggestions?

Argh. I really hate having to be a police officer. That is not the reason I became a teacher. :cry: But I must admit, the class was quiet and on task today, although the task was, admittedly, mostly just designed to be boring and independent.

Some other thoughts:
1. If they don't like the work you give them, just simply say, "well, I tried to do something better but you didn't cooperate, so now, we don't."

2. You may have to be an ogre for awhile, until it is understood that they have to do what they are told. And at this point, they have been warned enough.

3. It is by reining in the small behaviors that you do not experience the big ones- if the worst problem you have is someone chewing gum or throwing something, you are in good shape.

I agree with Johnboy.

The students need to learn that there are limits and consequences to their behavior. If they don't like what they're doing, tough panookies. Tell them they had their chance to do something interesting and they blew it because their behavior was simply unacceptable.

So turn up the thumb screws for a bit. Impose consequences for even looking crosseyed in your direction. In time, start easing up and trying to bring back some other activities. If the students do well - well and good. If the students revert to their earleir behavior, impose immediate consequences.

Don't scream at the students. Don't act as though you're upset. Don't let them know that their behavior has seriouisly bothered you to the point where you were thinking about quitting.

Be very "matter of fact with them." The students must learn that there are consequences for the choices they make in life. Those who do well will be "rewarded" with good grades. Feel free to add personal comments to their papers. You might even consider (eventually) allowing some of the better students the freedom to work on independent projects while the rest do drill and practice or whatever basic instruction you choose to use.

With patience and consistency, most of your students will realize that they have a choice between the stick and the carrot.

I'm glad you're taking charge.

Well done! We'll make a public school teacher out of you yet.