Thread: Falling Behind

I think I now "get it" thanks to Bitsy. I think you all believe when I post what seems to be (and in some cases ARE) cynical posts or articles about education, you all think that I'm fronting YOU out. NO! I know that you all here are the good teachers/educators. No no no! That's not the case at all. I'm just sharing thoughts and articles I come across with the hopes that we can maybe invoke change at the very best, and continue to be what's good and right with education at the very least. Really, that's all.

CSW

Stan! You learned something from little ole' me???

Hallelujah! :P

Stan, here's my take on this "choice" business.

We DO have a choice where we send our kids to school. If you want your child to attend a certain school (or series of schools), you just need to plant your residence within the attendance area for that school.

For example, my oldest son is in his last year in middle school now. The middle school he attends is fine, but the high school that he would have to go to is completely unacceptable for my standards. We are already planning to relocate before the next school year begins (and there are numerous others in this neighborhood who have done the same as is apparent by the plethora of realty signs). It may be sad that we have to go to those measures to ensure that our children have a safe and effective learning environment, but it is how we have chosen to deal with it.

If nothing else, this system encourages people to strive for better jobs, better pay, etc. so they can secure the best in education for their kids by living in the right area (in which vandalism and drive-by shootings are unheard of). I really fail to see the problem with this logic.

If all people had the choice of where to send their kids to school, the "good" schools would soon be overrun by pseudo-students who just go to school so their parents don't get fined by the courts for non-attendance. The quality that was apparent at the "good" school will quickly fade with the influx of trouble-makers.

People that live near each other tend to have similar ideas about things like child-rearing. If a less-disciplined child moves into this sort of neighborhood, they are soon reformed due to the overwhelming pressure from ALL of the neighbors. The kid and his/her family then assimilate to be more like those around them, and the "good" school is not diminished in quality.

Just my humble opinion.

Well, it's still America, so yea, we have a choice. I made sure once I could afford a house, we'd move to the part of town where my youngest daughter (now 9) would go to the elementary school I wanted her to go to. It's in the "common people" part of town. I didn't want her going to the school where all the "Hoi Polloi's" kids go and end up having to associated with those snobs. On the other hand, I didn't want her going to the school of hoodlums, although if I had my druthers, I'd sent her to that one as opposed to the "Hoi Polloi."

In the end, it's not all the school's job to "educate." The parent's additude and involvement is huge, regardless of the school. In fact, that may be the most important factor of all.

CSW

Originally Posted by C. Stan White

I think I now "get it" thanks to Bitsy. I think you all believe when I post what seems to be (and in some cases ARE) cynical posts or articles about education, you all think that I'm fronting YOU out. NO! I know that you all here are the good teachers/educators. No no no! That's not the case at all. I'm just sharing thoughts and articles I come across with the hopes that we can maybe invoke change at the very best, and continue to be what's good and right with education at the very least. Really, that's all.

CSW

I was not not taking anything you said personally at all. that does not mean I will always agree with you, however.

I don't "feel" the need to be agreed with all the time. So it's no big deal. People of education should be the most tolerant and open-minded of all. And despite our culture of "polarizing politics," it's OK in my mind to agree to disagree, even get a little heated from time to time, dust off, shake hands, and carry on. A trait our Founding Fathers had that we've seemed to forget.

CSW

I had a really long post but decided to shorten it to this. This article is clearly written by someone who does not get it. We cannot treat our children like Ipods, or anyother product. The minute we begin doing this we have lost all hope.

As much as people gripe and moan about NCLB it has created, in a limited sense the competition you mention. If a school does not make AYP the students do not have to go to that school. They can go to any school of their choosing. This on top of the fact that students do not have to attend school in their district anyway, at least that is the way it is in AZ. Children here can attend whatever school they choose, as long as the parents drop them off or provide some sort of transportation. A school will only provide transportation within their district. Problems occur when students cross state lines and I think this needs to be changed.

The problem I see with the argument is schools are not in the business of making money, and cannot be looked at in that light. I suppose a case could be made for test scores indicating profit, but how many of us believe those one time tests are any true indicator of what our students can do?

opinions such as this do not consider the social situations of many students. While many can get to schools outside their districts many do not have that option. Those who do not have that option are usually the ones in the most need. No, I think this piece is wrong and poorly thought out.

I did a search on the Center for Educational Freedom and it is part of the CATO Institute. A typical think tank out of touch with the reality of education.

Originally Posted by C. Stan White

I think you all believe when I post what seems to be (and in some cases ARE) cynical posts or articles about education, you all think that I'm fronting YOU out. NO! I know that you all here are the good teachers/educators. No no no! That's not the case at all. I'm just sharing thoughts and articles I come across with the hopes that we can maybe invoke change at the very best, and continue to be what's good and right with education at the very least. Really, that's all.CSW

I understand this. I am learning.

I realize that there is the need to discuss the problems and inequities of education and within our public schools. Growing up in a family thinking that problems and feelings might go away if you do not talk about them has taught me something. Fruitful discussion is an important aspect in all areas of life for the betterment of society.

I bristle at the thought of negativity being so dominant, though. I sometimes wonder if this is a part of some responses to some of your posts, C Stanley. Topics on educational forums sometimes remind us that as educators, we represent the profession to parents and tax payers. How we discuss topics with each other makes impressions upon others visiting and reading. Likewise, it has an impact in how we present ourselves and our stance in our face-to-face contact with those around us. It is important to hold the discussions about the problems, possible solutions, corruption that exists, etc.

I also feel strongly that the positive elements also need to brought to light and discussed. Parents and the public need to hear our take on the terrific superintendents, administrators, teachers, and support staff. They need to hear what is right and celebrate the positives. If there is not the balance, the negativity will only compound.

Certainly Banannas, I can feel and agree with your statements. There are wonderful things going on with education. My only wish is that it would become more universal.

Hell, I can cite you lots of examples of what's "good and right" with my teaching venue (prison) as well as what's wrong. But my view is that no one really gives a rip about prison education in the mainstream, so I don't present it often.

Prior to that, I worked for almost two decades with the kids no one wants to hear about or deal with - juvenile offenders and kids in trouble with school and/or the law. There again, some successes and lots of problems. Who really wants to hear about them? They were shuffled to be because no one wanted to deal with them. To a certain extent, I can understand. On the other hand, it's tragic.

Teachers like us often discuss "irresponsible parents." To an extent, that claim is valid. However, in my experience, I've found not only that, but scores of parents who DO care deeply about when their child gets arrested and locked up, or suspended from school. The problem is that they are simply not very bright people and are frustrated because this in turn translates into being poor parents. They care deeply, they just don't have good parenting skills. It's tough.

Ironically, I ran into a "kid" (he's in his mid 20's now) whom I had locked up and also had in my suspension school. Saw him yesterday and he always shakes my hand and speaks as we exchange civilities. I'm sure once he has kids, he'll be one of those parents who loves his kid, but won't be a very good parent. I run into kids all the time like this who seek me out to speak. They were smart enough to remember it wasn't ME who locked them up or suspended them - I was just there to try and modify their thinking and behavior to avoid future problems. Having said that, I can say that relatively few did go on to prison or lives of habitual crime - so I guess there was some "success" by not only me, but by the courts, schools, whatnot.

The challenge for me in these abnormal work situations (what's normal?) is to not "hate" and stay professional. I've done well. I can recall only two in 21-plus years whom I hated (not as people, but from their patholgical fu*ked up behavior). Professionals don't hate. Hate is an emotion, and it's not professional to operate on emotion for it opens doors to trouble. I guess if I hate anything, it's when clients or co-workers or superiors KNOW they are being unethical and continue to "get it off." I have no patience for that.

Just so you know my perspective a little better. I can cite you scores and scores of "success stories" behind bars and with public education's "throw away" kids.

I'll leave you with one, however. I tutored a kid for one year because of a drug problem. I had him locked up twice for drugs. Once he became a young adult, he came to visit me and thank me. He was honest - he said he "couldn't stand me" when he was a kid because I fronted reality out to him and made him work. Now, he understood and thanked me. I was just doing my job. BUT, he went on to tell me where he was working and how much he was making, which was A LOT more than I was! Wahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!! He could have left that part out!

CSW