Thread: Need teacher advice

Your daughter is precious!

I teach 7th grade and I think that is not logical thinking. As a parent, I dont want my girls in class with boys 2 years older either. But I am not going to hold them back academically so they can be older and bigger in their class.

My suggestion: if you are in a school system that you are uncomfortable with, try a private school. Sure its a huge sacrifice, but your children will not be exposed to and expected to tolerate all the mess that exists in some public schools. I know because I have taught in both.

Speaking as a teacher, please dont hold your daughter back for the reasons you listed. If the boys are 2 and 1/2 years older than her in one grade, dont you think there will be some like that in the next grade too? Thats not the way to escape it. I see children who were held back and they often resent it if they didnt need it. They are made fun of as well.

Best wishes!

We're not technically holding her back. Not like it would be if we did it in 1st or 2nd - where the story would get out. So I don't think teasing will be a factor. I was more concerned about her being at least 2 months younger than the youngest, 8 or 9 months younger than the average, and up to 26 months younger than the oldest kids.

If we go forward with this, she'll be the same age as the others ... pretty much on the high side of middle (some up to 10 months younger, the ones that were held back a year up to 1 1/2 years older (however I would think most of the "held back" kids were Sept. or later, so not much older than her).

We live in Newport Beach, CA ... the neighborhood elementry is known for being private school-like. Many of the moms are housewives so the PTA has VERY strong involvement - however by high school, some kids are getting into normal trouble (sex, drugs, etc) however this is VERY suberban so knives and gangs aren't the issue, more like adolescent rich kids TPing houses and exploring their sexuality etc. So; we'd rather her be mentally prepared to "survive" that with an extra year of life's experience.

So; it's not a public school problem really; just a matter of throwing her in as the absolute youngest. All kids will go through the adolescent issues ... I'd just rather not hasten hers.

With all the home schooling around here, the principle said that every year several kindergarteners can already read, and some read pretty well. They promised they'll "keep her challenged" but I'm a little worried that while the others are resiting ABCs sitting in a circle that she'll either resent us for putting her there, or simply loose interest in learning.

I hate to say it; but this advanced head-start is beginning to seem like a problem.

We're thinking she will learn what she needs without a problem - let her be a little girl for another year before the "No Child Left Behind" system unleashes the stress case on her. That is; if we're not making a grave mistake.

I'm not keen on Private School due to proximity. She's an only child in a predominantly old-people neighborhood. She has no friends nearby. The private school of choice a 3 mile drive. The neighborhood elementry is an easy 2 block walk across a nice greenbelt - and with 2000 townhomes, there's got to be a lot of neighborhood kids just waiting to be friends.

Thanks for your advice.

If anyone else want to chime in too - be happy to hear it.

I think the decision is entirely up to you. I would have to caution about holding her back when she is cognitively ready to move forward. Forcing her to sit through what she already knows could lead to boredom, and boredom usually leads to misbehavior (this is a problem that I find with heterogeneous grouping).

I am a high school teacher. In some of my classes, I have 14 year old students and 18 year olds at the same time. Their ages are a non-issue. Ironically, I find that the extremes are my better students.

Academic boredom is a terrible waste of an inquiring mind. Whatever decision you make, just make sure you can live with it.

Kindergarten teacher chiming in here! 8)

Originally Posted by vich

Although she's the same size as the other kids in her class, it's appearent to me that she's not as emotionally developed. She has a few older friends and tends to get into trouble under their influence. Also; we heard that it's popular for boys to be held back a year. So when she's 13, there will be some 16 year olds in her class (esp. boys).

It's a way for her to be the older opinion leader rather than the younger follower as she grows older. She's very sweet and caring, but gullible.

Is this valid thinking?

Yes, very valid. As Kindergarten teachers, we see a LOT of children who can already read. My concern with those children is to make sure they are developing appropriately in ALL areas of education--academic, social, physical--particularly social. You also don't say how her writing or math skills are. As her K teacher, THAT's what I would be concerned with. Also, I wouldn't be particularly concerned with the 16 yo boys in her grade 9 class--by that time, she'll have learned enough to know how to ignore them.

Originally Posted by vich

They promised they'll "keep her challenged" but I'm a little worried that while the others are resiting ABCs sitting in a circle that she'll either resent us for putting her there, or simply loose interest in learning.

The teachers WILL keep her challenged. There are ways of reciting the ABCs that challenge even the most advanced of children. Trust me, I've been there. She will not lose interest in learning. She may tell you she's bored but usually the word "bored" means "I don't have any friends" which, given what you've written and from the picture (she's lovely!), she's not going to have that problem.

Originally Posted by vich

We're thinking she will learn what she needs without a problem - let her be a little girl for another year before the "No Child Left Behind" system unleashes the stress case on her. That is; if we're not making a grave mistake.

You're NOT making a grave mistake and you're right, letting her be a little girl for another year is a very, very good idea. I'd suggest you put her in MY class but I don't think she'd qualify as I bet that English is her first language and the commute would be a little far. 8)

Originally Posted by vich

Also; we heard that it's popular for boys to be held back a year. So when she's 13, there will be some 16 year olds in her class (esp. boys).

You should check with your local school district regarding its retention policy. Many states have policies that restrict the number of times a child may be retained.

When I first began teaching, I worked as a 5th grade teacher in south Texas. Although most of my fifth graders were 10 years old, I actually had some students who were 13 or 14. The variance in age occurred because we had no restrictions on retention. This problem has since been rectified.

I will also say that when I was in kindergarten, my teacher recommended that I be retained. As a young student I was said to have "poor socialization" skills. I had no interest in group activities. When it was time for art, I wanted to nap. When it was time to nap, I wanted to play. When it was time to play, I wanted to color.

My parents opted to have me go into first grade.

I can't help but wonder how different my life might have been had my parents simply kept me back for a year.

Retention at that age wouldn't have made any difference to me because I wasn't old enough to understand the entire concept of grade levels let alone the difference between academic promotion versus social promotion.

I must say that in retrospect, my kindergarten teacher was probably right.

Had I been retained, I would have been just a bit more mature. I think I would have also been more disciplined as a student.

As an older student I would have been physically larger. This would have given me more confidence on the playground and in PE.

I teach 6, 7, 8th grade. I have mixed classes as the students are separated by language level, not grade. We also have many classes that are mixed 7, 8th grade. I have students that are 11 and students who are 15 in the same class. I have never had a 16 yo in middle school. We don't seem to have many issues. Most kids don't even realize what grade the kid next to them is in. Send her on or don't, but I don't think the age range you are worried about is much of a problem. Since she is advanced for her age already, I find it unlikely that she'd be in a class with students who have been held back many times. At that age, students are often divided into "GATE" "honors" "regular" or "intensive." In high school she will be with kids who are 13-18. She may have band or art or PE with seniors at that point. If you are concerned about her following the crowd, that is a different issue entirely. The oldest kids are not always the leaders.

My child is in Montessori where a 3 year age range in each class is the norm.

Dear Parents,

I can understand your worry about your girl. I, being a teacher will advise you to switch to a girl-based school only. The influence of the boys will not be good to the full academic development of the child. I work with boys so I know them well.

Kind regards,
Avinash.

I will respond from two different viewpoints:

First through the lens of my own educational experience. I entered school early like your daughter. I was the youngest in my class but I was bright. My father is a bonafide genius and my IQ is high as well. I did fine through my elementary years but when I hit 7th grade I lost it! Social & academic aturity was an issue for me despite my physical maturity (always tall, 5'11 as an adult). I didn't have the focus nor the study skills that were needed to excel through junior high and up. I did fine, I still got B's but I could have done much better. That wasn't even my biggest issue though...where it hit me the hardest was college. I went to college at 17 and lived in the dorms. I was so immature! I flunked out my first semester :wink: I decided to take a year off, worked and grew up a bit. I went back a year later and excelled. My mom and I talk often about her decision to put me into school early. It was a mistake for us. Although not horrid--I did manage to graduate middle of my class and graduated college with honors.

Next through the lens of a third grade teacher: I find maturity to be a red flag for me as a teacher. I'm sure I'm tainted by my own experience but I also see such a significant difference between my students who are turning 8 and those who are turning 9. It's almost comical to watch! There is a large cognitive difference as they transition from that literal being into one of conceptual thoughts. I have two children this year who are young and I recommended retention for both. They are both bright kids who need a good year to grow so they can be at their best.

I agree with the previous poster who said a good teacher will challenge your child. There are options for a child who excels. Children who lag behind, especially in the middle grades, have much fewer options these days. With the NCLB act in place more and more special ed kids are being mainstreamed and our resources, once allocated for helping those slow in their learning, are being used to teach students with severe disabilities. Gone are the days of remedial teaching to boost up a kids abilities!

Good luck coming to a decision! It's a tough one. My son is a September baby and without a doubt, he'll be starting K at 6.

On the other hand, we were the lone parents to send our son to school while others were holding their sons back a year. We gave it much thought with our September baby. He was four the first three weeks of kindergarten. It was the right decision. Even with all-day kindergarten. He went up to another boy that first morning and asked if the boy wanted to be his friend and play with him at recess. He did fine with the academics, sports, and friends. As our daughter said tonight at DH's birthday dinner, half of our town's girls were in love with him. The hardest thing for him was being a sophomore and having so many freshmen ahead of him for Driver's Ed. Consider the individual child and their needs.