Thread: New Year Honours List

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

It is very easy for a British Muslim to be included in New Year Honour List. He/she should cut himself/herself off from Islamic cultural roots in the name of freedom and so called western democratic values.

A Muslim girl was awarded MBE for running away from her parents. She was mis-educated and de-educated by British teachers from an early age who have no respect for Islamic faith and Muslim community. Through out her educational career she was exposed to western values and environment.

I have tried repeatedly to start a discussion with you regarding your views on the British educational system. You have no responded to any of the replies made by myself or any other member of this website.

Since you insist on using this forum to complain about the educational plight of Muslims in the United Kingdom - may I suggest the following?

Why don't you go back to wherever it is that you came from?

If you have no interest in learning to live side by side with the British people - most of whom are not Muslim, then perhaps you should consider relocating to the Middle East where you can immerse yourself in Muslim ideology and culture to your heart's content.

As I have said repeatedly - the success (or failure) of Muslim people in western societies depends upon your willingness to learn how to live side by side with non-Muslims.

Does this mean that you have to give up your cultural identity? Does this mean that you should forsake your religon and become Christian? Does this mean that you have to adopt western cultural values?

NO!

Instead of whining about how unfair the British education system is - you shoud adopt a proactive approach.

Open Muslim schools to non-Muslim students and show the British how tolerant you are - how peaceful and caring and kind Islam can be. Expose non-Muslims to your art and culture and history. Instead of digging yourself into a hole and segregating yourself from the rest of British society - you should be embracing your non-Muslim neighbors - especially in these troubled times.

And if you can't learn to live with non-Muslims then you should really consider returning to your homeland because like it or not - YOU LIVE in the United Kingdom where most people are - amazingly enough, NOT MUSLIM.

I myself am ethnic Chinese.

Do I expect Americans to observe Chinese traditions?

NO!!!

Do I expect to hear Cantonese or Mandarin to be spoken on the streets of Austin, Texas?

NO!!!

Am I any less Chinese despite the fact that I was born in the United States?

NO!!!

Do I expect Chinese Americans to have separate schools from non-Chinese Americans?

NO!!!

Although I am a U.S. citizen, (and darn toot'n proud of it too), the fact of the matter is that I AM ethnically Chinese. My culture is a mixture of what I hope is the best of both the American and Chinese people.

I do not feel any particular loss of Chinese cultural identity and because of this I thoroughly dispute your inference that integration into the British cultural mainstream will result in a loss of your own cultural identity.

I have given your most recent post a great deal of thought - and the more I think about it, the more upset I become.

What are you talking about with regards to the loss of this particular girl's cultural idenity?

Are you upset that she is educated?

Are you upset that she may no longer be subservient to men?

Are you upset by the fact that she may understand that she actually has civil liberties in the United Kingdom?

When I lived in Beirut, Lebanon, the local paper carried a story about a Muslim girl who was raped by her cousin. The cousin then dragged the terrified girl before an Imam who performed the marriage ceremony. Under Lebanese law - the girl could not press charges against her "husband." Not only did the rapist get off scot free - but as the girl's "husband" he was able to continue sexually assaulting her.

In Saudi Arabia, I knew an expatriate woman who was terrified by her taxi driver. The driver tailgated other cars. He drove recklessly and aggressively and screamed and cursed at other drivers. When she called the taxi company to complain, the manager apologized and said that there was nothing he could do - because in Saudi Arabia, it takes the word of three women to equal the word of one man.

Is this part of the "cultural identity" you are talking about?

The subservience of women to men and the lack of what westerners call "civil rights?"

If this is the "loss" you are mourning then I can only hope that more Muslim women lose this particular aspect of their "cultural identity."

Iftikhar, I think you need to think of this in a couple of ways:

1. Britain isn't an Islamic Country. Their ways are different than yours. That is not a criticism or condemnation of you or your culture, but when I was in Saudi Arabia, back in 1991, I had to yield to certain aspects of their culture. I had to refrain from certain gestures and had to measure my discussions so as not to offend our hosts. I did that. I happen to be Christian and have customs and mores of my own, but I did not seek to impose them on the Saudis. It was, after all, their country. And it being the birthplace of Islam, the people of Saudi Arabia are very devout Muslims. I respect that. I accept that. For Saudis.

2. If people come to Britain (or any of the western democracies) they will have the opportunity to become or do whatever it is that they choose (within the law, of course) because that is our way. Those who are unwilling to expose themselves or their families to those conditions should refrain from visiting any of those democracies. We don't tend to isolate populations and shun those who are different, contrary to what you might have heard. It seems, though, that you seem inclined to do that yourself. And while that is your right, it seems as though you are borrowing trouble for yourselves by attempting to reside in an open society (a democracy) where the citizens appear to have many freedoms that you do not find useful. You might well find it more suitable to settle, instead, in a Muslim Country where where the c ulture is more suited to your liking.

Years ago, when Roman Catholics first began coming to the United States, the Church instituted Catholic Schools because they sensed that America was a hostile land to their faith. To some degree that was true. Things have changed over the years. Some parents still send their children to Catholic School, but not so much because they feel threatened by the rest of society, because they want them to be schooled in their beliefs. Other Catholic parents send their children to public school because they want them exposed to all kinds of people. They feel they have been raised well enough in their faith that they can face American society and not feel imperiled.

I wonder if you feel the same way. Apparently not.

Here we go again !

I have to add my voice to davids: Why do you not respond ???
It is not difficult - Just hit the RELPY button instead of POST A NEW MESSAGE .....

As for the blending-in matter - "When in Rome do as the Romans"
This is common knowledge and pretty much accepted - worldwide !
(And - has nothing to do with one religion being superior, one race being better - ITS PLAIN COMMON SENSE !)
jEEEZ- no wonder there are wars !
Olav

I agree with you David. It is completely unrealistic to expect the Muslim girl to not adapt to the British when she's living among them. Haha... It's too bad Iftikhar isn't writing back- I'd be interested to see his response to this.